The fact that the woman is so called means that she had certain demand for Susanna

The latest genealogists all of the think it over significant you to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia try incorporated here due to the fact, below regular factors, she would not be said. When Susanna on some later on time gotten over to a new protector, the newest spouse of that protector was not said.

This will signify Queen John invested a while there and you can the possibility of a keen amorous liaison having Clementia can be acquired

What follows the following is a concept complex from the some eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to state that this new findings are hotly competitive!

It theory causes a great and interested ‘twist’ regarding the tale of Joanna, which may notice fans away from HBD!

On top, there would be nothing to highly recommend any union between your hostage, Susanna out of Wales and you can Clementia, wife out-of Nicholas de Verdun. However, the feel of certain genealogists that have foreign hostages, like youths, has been which they have been tend to place which have friends, or no have been readily available.

Moving toward 1236, there is certainly an entry on the Tewkesbury annals and this relates to Joanna’s mom since “King Clemencie!” They reads partly:

Now, it is known the mommy out of Joanna is titled Clementia (Clemence?

In cases like this the fresh monk is plainly indulging when you look at the gothic legalism. In advance of their demise, Joanna was actually legitimised by the Pope. On such basis as that legitimisation, the newest Tewksbury monk obviously took they upon themselves to raise Joanna’s mother on standing away from King, as if her mom was Queen John’s partner! It is a fact not, you to definitely Queen John and you will Clementia have been never ever married. By the writing about Joanna’s mother due to the fact “Queen” Clementia, new monk exactly who recorded Joanna’s demise is actually exhibiting their extreme admiration to possess Joanna, although not wanting to alter the genuine affairs.

Are you aware that label away from Clementia de Verdun, Paget implies that she try the new child regarding Roger de Dauntsey, out-of Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers they extreme one Clementia hailed out-of Wiltshire since the he has got realized that King John got an effective connection to you to county, it as the home regarding their most trusted partners, the latest Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists found the title ‘Clementia’ are really unusual one of English noblewomen associated with the period. In one single dining table out of ladies’ names which had been accumulated, there had been merely several events of your own term “Clementia” out-of a maximum of 1407 women in the fresh new attempt! That somebody called Clementia would be associated with the Susanna is recognized as extreme.

Therefore! Evidence is actually suggestive, but not definitive, one to within the 1228, Susanna, due to tavata Salvadorian-naiset meissä the fact a great hostage, gotten off to the fresh care of her maternal grandmother, today partner off Nicholas de Verdun!!

Brand new Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ hold one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came to be 1214 when you look at the Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 within the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife in 1230 along with several students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.

Needless to say, you can find counter arguments to all so it conjecture! Queen John had of a lot mistresses and perhaps up to 7 illegitimate people. The caretaker regarding Joanna would-have-been produced circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (14 yrs . old at the time of their particular wedding so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh new known legitimate child from Nicholas de- Verdun with his spouse Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. If Clementia was mom out of Joanna, she’d can be found in their later 30’s, very early 40’s when giving birth so you can Rohese! Maybe not hopeless, specific say, but not likely.